I haven't played the Nightdive port of Heretic/Hexen yet, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the recent rereleases of Doom 1 and 2, Quake 1 and 2, and especially Doom 64. If you're a hardcore long-time fan, you absolutely have some specific mix of source ports and options that you think creates the perfect experience and have no need for them, but I count myself as one of those and still think they're really well-done and outstanding efforts, especially considering their entire purpose is to repackage extremely old games in a way that's palatable for new players without completely rendering them unrecognizable. I especially like the extra episodes MachineGames made for Quake 1 and 2, and the way all the games have integrated mod managers so you can seamlessly play classic Wads and stuff like Copper in Quake even on a Switch, something that I think would otherwise remain relegated to PC players.
But as far as individual games go, I really never liked Hexen all that much, especially compared to other similar games of the era. The map design is too backtrack-heavy, the game doesn't give enough information about what changes from your inputs [I'm assuming the new objective tracker you mentioned is like the one in Quake 2 that lets you project a little guide on the floor if you need it] and even though the weapons are cool on paper and the class system is neat, the paucity of ammo and the fact you have to make so many trips means you spend a lot of it just whittling shit down with your 'free' weapon and rarely getting to cut loose.
A few years ago I did play something called Scattered Evil, which is, as far as I'm aware, pretty unique in that it's a full Total Conversion mod for Hexen, rather than a GZDoom game, and it turns out that's because it's basically been in development since almost 2000. It basically turns Hexen into an open-world RPG, with cities, vendors, a level system, main and side quests, encumbrance, all kinds of crazy crap. It was really cool, and like Hexen itself, ultimately not that good.
In my opinion, the true descendant of Hexen, and a much better game, is Hedon, which IS a GZDoom game, has similar complexity and systems, but disperses things properly and has far more coherent and enjoyable level structure. Instead of a class system, though, Hedon just has a great selection of guns and such by default, including a melee axe that you can throw through a line of enemies and then retrieve, then a whole additional difficulty mode that gives you a completely separate arsenal of melee-focused weapons, like the ability to carry extra throwing axes, a fire enchanted hammer you can use to rocket jump with, a spear that has the ability to yank enemies into you or off ledges to their death, and so on. Still one of my favorite GZDoom things ever made, and holds up on its own just as a great FPS.
I own several of those and agree they're great stuff; there are all sorts of open-source and Source Engine version as you say but for someone like me who likes to pick these old shooters up maybe every few months for a quick replay of an episode here and there, I'm happy to just use these on my Switch 2 while laying in bed or something. Source ports make every game feel like Half Life 2 which is a shooter I'm not particularly fond of.
I must admit I haven't returned to it since I finished this episode, part of that is the fact that I have 2 rather heavy writing projects on the go at the moment (one of those will be with you on Monday) and the other reason is that, as you say, it's just not that good. I actually tried Heretic for about an hour after out of curiosity and to be honest, despite its better reputation I found it even less engaging. The level design isn't enjoyable and the enemies are just generic fantasy crap. That tracker I mentioned is literally just a big red X on the map that marks portals and places where you haven't yet solved all the puzzles, I elected to ignore them once I cleared the first hub.
Hedon sounds awesome and detached from early Raven's love for RPG's. It came up in my research that they were big DnD guys at the time and by the sounds of Hedon (and the results of Raven's work on Hexen) that influence wasn't too compatible. I think these GZDoom projects and wads might outlast the genre.
GZDoom is almost a genre in itself now that the engine is totally independent and can be used for development of things that aren't even directly related to Doom. Incidentally, 'source port' isn't the same as Source [the engine] port, its just a term for any alternative executable that can run a game's files, basically any independently developed engine that can enable changes and additions not possible by modifying the core game. GZDoom itself was a branch off of the old ZDoom source port, made to support graphical effects beyond what that port could.
I should clarify I meant those source engine ports of some of these old games but thanks for clearing up the definition, I didn't know that; I'm not a particularly tech savvy person, I like hardware more than software which is why I gravitate more towards consoles.
I've seen some extremely impressive stuff over the years, I might do a deep dive for the 'stack some day.
No worries. Source ports were basically the only way for PC players to run a lot of old games prior to the modern wave of rereleases, other than emulating either an old OS which took even more work or emulating one of the console ports, which usually was significantly inferior and might not work any better anyway. In fact, one of the games that fans made repeated efforts to port to Doom source ports was Doom 64, and ironically none of them had the lighting and scripting capabilities at the time to do it properly, so the Nightdive release is kind of the first time PC players got a chance to play a decent version of that game.
I remember the PC version of this game driving my brother to madness with its level design. So I still haven't had the stomach to go and play this even though I own the Heretic + Hexen bundle on Steam.
Speaking of which, deserved shout-out to Nightdive. They do great work preserving classic FPS games, although I do wish their games would be cheaper at times. Though that's probably Atari's fault.
It's not as bad as Turok 2 in my opinion (though a lot of the confusion there comes from the abysmal FPS on original hardware and draw distance fog) but for sure, finding the way forward is a bit of a task and not one that remains entertaining for long.
I'm usually okay with their prices but the price they have on Star Wars: Dark Forces is a joke, for £24.99 they should've remastered the second game too and stuck that in there.
Turok 2 just had obnoxious design. I loved the entire vibe of the game but I tried to play the remaster a few years back and I grew tired of it all by level 3.
Speaking of Turok, Turok 3 being sold for nearly €30 is kind of where I drew the line with Nightdive remasters.
I think some of those later N64 games just pushed the hardware a step too far and are now almost unplayable; Turok 1 isn't that bad on the old hardware and GoldenEye is mostly fine aside from a few missions but Turok 2, Perfect Dark and others are just horrendous now, not to be played without the Nightdive/Rare Replay version.
A lot of these remasters rely on consumer ignorance, I pointed this out a good few months ago but essentially, for the price of Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 on Switch you can buy a whole Wii plus the two games here in the UK from CEX.
That’s certainly a part of it. It almost feels like the end of the Switch 1 era, where even big releases like Echoes of Wisdom and Tears of the Kingdom suffered from miserable performance.
But with those games and N64 titles like Perfect Dark, there’s still a great game hiding beneath the performance. In my opinion, Turok 2 just tried way too hard to be smart with its level design and becomes a miserable experience even in the remaster.
I haven't played the Nightdive port of Heretic/Hexen yet, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the recent rereleases of Doom 1 and 2, Quake 1 and 2, and especially Doom 64. If you're a hardcore long-time fan, you absolutely have some specific mix of source ports and options that you think creates the perfect experience and have no need for them, but I count myself as one of those and still think they're really well-done and outstanding efforts, especially considering their entire purpose is to repackage extremely old games in a way that's palatable for new players without completely rendering them unrecognizable. I especially like the extra episodes MachineGames made for Quake 1 and 2, and the way all the games have integrated mod managers so you can seamlessly play classic Wads and stuff like Copper in Quake even on a Switch, something that I think would otherwise remain relegated to PC players.
But as far as individual games go, I really never liked Hexen all that much, especially compared to other similar games of the era. The map design is too backtrack-heavy, the game doesn't give enough information about what changes from your inputs [I'm assuming the new objective tracker you mentioned is like the one in Quake 2 that lets you project a little guide on the floor if you need it] and even though the weapons are cool on paper and the class system is neat, the paucity of ammo and the fact you have to make so many trips means you spend a lot of it just whittling shit down with your 'free' weapon and rarely getting to cut loose.
A few years ago I did play something called Scattered Evil, which is, as far as I'm aware, pretty unique in that it's a full Total Conversion mod for Hexen, rather than a GZDoom game, and it turns out that's because it's basically been in development since almost 2000. It basically turns Hexen into an open-world RPG, with cities, vendors, a level system, main and side quests, encumbrance, all kinds of crazy crap. It was really cool, and like Hexen itself, ultimately not that good.
In my opinion, the true descendant of Hexen, and a much better game, is Hedon, which IS a GZDoom game, has similar complexity and systems, but disperses things properly and has far more coherent and enjoyable level structure. Instead of a class system, though, Hedon just has a great selection of guns and such by default, including a melee axe that you can throw through a line of enemies and then retrieve, then a whole additional difficulty mode that gives you a completely separate arsenal of melee-focused weapons, like the ability to carry extra throwing axes, a fire enchanted hammer you can use to rocket jump with, a spear that has the ability to yank enemies into you or off ledges to their death, and so on. Still one of my favorite GZDoom things ever made, and holds up on its own just as a great FPS.
I own several of those and agree they're great stuff; there are all sorts of open-source and Source Engine version as you say but for someone like me who likes to pick these old shooters up maybe every few months for a quick replay of an episode here and there, I'm happy to just use these on my Switch 2 while laying in bed or something. Source ports make every game feel like Half Life 2 which is a shooter I'm not particularly fond of.
I must admit I haven't returned to it since I finished this episode, part of that is the fact that I have 2 rather heavy writing projects on the go at the moment (one of those will be with you on Monday) and the other reason is that, as you say, it's just not that good. I actually tried Heretic for about an hour after out of curiosity and to be honest, despite its better reputation I found it even less engaging. The level design isn't enjoyable and the enemies are just generic fantasy crap. That tracker I mentioned is literally just a big red X on the map that marks portals and places where you haven't yet solved all the puzzles, I elected to ignore them once I cleared the first hub.
Hedon sounds awesome and detached from early Raven's love for RPG's. It came up in my research that they were big DnD guys at the time and by the sounds of Hedon (and the results of Raven's work on Hexen) that influence wasn't too compatible. I think these GZDoom projects and wads might outlast the genre.
GZDoom is almost a genre in itself now that the engine is totally independent and can be used for development of things that aren't even directly related to Doom. Incidentally, 'source port' isn't the same as Source [the engine] port, its just a term for any alternative executable that can run a game's files, basically any independently developed engine that can enable changes and additions not possible by modifying the core game. GZDoom itself was a branch off of the old ZDoom source port, made to support graphical effects beyond what that port could.
I should clarify I meant those source engine ports of some of these old games but thanks for clearing up the definition, I didn't know that; I'm not a particularly tech savvy person, I like hardware more than software which is why I gravitate more towards consoles.
I've seen some extremely impressive stuff over the years, I might do a deep dive for the 'stack some day.
No worries. Source ports were basically the only way for PC players to run a lot of old games prior to the modern wave of rereleases, other than emulating either an old OS which took even more work or emulating one of the console ports, which usually was significantly inferior and might not work any better anyway. In fact, one of the games that fans made repeated efforts to port to Doom source ports was Doom 64, and ironically none of them had the lighting and scripting capabilities at the time to do it properly, so the Nightdive release is kind of the first time PC players got a chance to play a decent version of that game.
I remember the PC version of this game driving my brother to madness with its level design. So I still haven't had the stomach to go and play this even though I own the Heretic + Hexen bundle on Steam.
Speaking of which, deserved shout-out to Nightdive. They do great work preserving classic FPS games, although I do wish their games would be cheaper at times. Though that's probably Atari's fault.
It's not as bad as Turok 2 in my opinion (though a lot of the confusion there comes from the abysmal FPS on original hardware and draw distance fog) but for sure, finding the way forward is a bit of a task and not one that remains entertaining for long.
I'm usually okay with their prices but the price they have on Star Wars: Dark Forces is a joke, for £24.99 they should've remastered the second game too and stuck that in there.
Turok 2 just had obnoxious design. I loved the entire vibe of the game but I tried to play the remaster a few years back and I grew tired of it all by level 3.
Speaking of Turok, Turok 3 being sold for nearly €30 is kind of where I drew the line with Nightdive remasters.
I think some of those later N64 games just pushed the hardware a step too far and are now almost unplayable; Turok 1 isn't that bad on the old hardware and GoldenEye is mostly fine aside from a few missions but Turok 2, Perfect Dark and others are just horrendous now, not to be played without the Nightdive/Rare Replay version.
A lot of these remasters rely on consumer ignorance, I pointed this out a good few months ago but essentially, for the price of Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 on Switch you can buy a whole Wii plus the two games here in the UK from CEX.
That’s certainly a part of it. It almost feels like the end of the Switch 1 era, where even big releases like Echoes of Wisdom and Tears of the Kingdom suffered from miserable performance.
But with those games and N64 titles like Perfect Dark, there’s still a great game hiding beneath the performance. In my opinion, Turok 2 just tried way too hard to be smart with its level design and becomes a miserable experience even in the remaster.
Sort of tangential, but my boss still plays DOOM weekly. Will have to suggest he check this out.