I think the thing you're missing here, and probably considered yourself but decided to cut for expediency's sake, is that Tekken 8 is being developed in the wake of Soul Calibur's demise. Soul Calibur is a weapon fighter and was always the goofier, less technical sibling of the two. Namco's inability to properly manage and promote 2 separate fighting games at once means you have a lot of senior devs from that team floating around in the T8 offices, pitching ideas and influencing the design philosophy. In fact, the wall tech Miary has in her trailer is a mechanic borrowed from Cervantes in Soul Calibur. Weirdly enough I think I'm probably more likely to buy her and try to pick her up than any of the other season 2 characters.
I'll say for my own part that I enjoy Tekken 8 quite a bit, but it's got fundamental issues. I could write an essay on the Heat system in particular and why it creates more problems than it can ever solve. I'm looking forward to the new Virtua Fighter from the RGG studio guys. This series is badly in need of competition to keep it honest, ironically enough, T7 played a similar role by siphoning players away from Street Fighter 5, leading to SF6's almost unprecedented popularity a few years later. Cause for optimism, I'd say.
There's quite a few things I wanted to mention but you're right about cutting for expediency, this was supposed to be a more bite-sized article but it's kind of blowing up in a way I didn't expect.
I don't need to add anything here, you're spot on about the cross-pollination and Soul Calibur's identity. I also love SC but those are two identities that shouldn't mix.
I also, in the long-term think that Tekken 8 will improve but I'm pessimistic for a return to the grounded Tekken of 7 and its predecessors since the Heat system (at least in the way it's been implemented now) is incompatible with that type of gameplay.
The problem, I think, with T7 was that by the time it ended it was kind of a solved game. You saw more and more pro sets where the optimal strategy was to win the first 10 seconds of a round and then play keep away for the next 50. It makes sense that they'd try for something that rewards more aggression, but they never quite figured out how to apply that philosophy to characters like Kaz and Paul that have always rewarded players with strong defensive fundamentals.
As for Heat, I just think that's a classic example of a dev doing something because competitors are doing it. Namco saw the Drive System in Street Fighter 6 and decided they needed something similar. I think the FGC as a whole is beginning to get sick of meter inflation and endless cinematic cutscenes/stance mixups.
The issue with Tekken 8 has nothing to do with Miary Zo’s design. The series has had laser beams and fighting kangaroos for a long time. Your portrayal of it as a grimdark series is myopic, and ignores the actual major issue of Tekken 8, which is that it feels like shit to play.
I didn't ignore the issue at all, it's just hard to go into specifics when my audience is generslly not acquainted with the series but I do generally agree. Tekken 8 plays like garbage and is conceptually unfixable to a degree where it will feel like Tekken again.
You are pointing out exceptions, not rules.
Got a torrent of abuse under this article (not from you) and had an awful time engaging with the community post-Season 2 so we can add the awful Tekken player base to that list of biggest problems. No wonder Harada left, the man was getting death threats every other week.
When a series has been known for a dark martial arts aesthetic for 30 years and suddenly pivots to skimpy female characters in bright colours I take issue. I don't really care about sexy female characters, I care about series I used to enjoy looking unrecognisable. I like large breasts as much as the next 20-something year old man.
I'm not a feminist or any other label you want to try and pin me with, my critiques aren't ideology-based, when I play a Tekken game I expect it to look and sound like a Tekken game.
The problem with your critiques is that you are speaking for everyone and not yourself. Gamers like sexy female characters. I mean just take a look at Abby from TLOU 2. Gamers found her to be disgusting, specifically during the sex scene.
Are you in the Tekken community? Have you put serious time into the games or spent time around Tekken fans? You're right, I can only speak for myself but the overwhelming majority of the player base are not happy with the state of modern Tekken and the character designs are a big part of it; a quick trip to the comments section of any Tekken video or to forums like Reddit will confirm this for you.
Yes, there will be people who enjoy these character designs too, I know gamers like sexy female characters and I like sexy women too but not when it fundamentally clashes with the tone and style of an established series. I don't actually disagree with you in principle: sex does sell and gamers like sexy women but in this context it is hurting Tekken; Tekken 8's player count has shrivelled up massively.
Look at Unknown's design from Tekken Tag 2 or some of Nina's old costumes, those are still sensual and alluring but darker and more thematic, that's better design.
Tekken has never been known for being dark. It's always been known for being flashy and playful. The character designs haven't changed that much. Just some minor alterations.
You're obviously not involved in the Tekken community because everyone has gone back to play it since the balance fixtures.
Nice breakdown of the facts. I can't say I understand all the details, but that's because the last Tekken game I played with regularity was Tekken 3 on the PlayStation...and I was never much of a strategic fighter anyway. So I can't fathom the granular level of knowledge folks like you have.
Tekken is so abyssally deep that I'm very much an amateur too, even after several hundred hours of play and consuming lots of Tekken content. Still, I'm glad this article has connected with people, a lot more than I anticipated actually.
I think we are watching the DOAzation of Tekken for some time now. I thought they learned a lesson after the disastrous S2, but I guess I was wrong.
As someone who plays Tekken since its first iteration (is basically the first game I ever played on the PSX), it's getting harder and harder to get behind T8.
I agree and it’s really disappointing. There’s nothing like Tekken; I’ve never liked Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat so with Soul Calibur also dead my interest in the genre has effectively been drawn to a close
I enjoyed Tekken 7 wholeheartedly with it's jank and quirks. I was then hyped and waited for T8. Bought it at launch. Now I honestly regret spending that amount of money on a product that has to keep afloat by creating gooner bait - among other problems.
I enjoyed it initially, expecting things to get better but as time passed, not only did things not improve but it became clear that the whole design of the game is incompatible with traditional, high quality Tekken
Oh. No. This feels like Resident Evil 5, with Sheva all over again. Except this time, its 2025.
Capcom learned their lesson there back in 2009, and over 15 years later, I hope Bandi Namco gets the memo.
The Japanese game dev industry has a lot going for it. They retain staff and build careers for their team better than any other region. Their games are consistently high quality as a direct result.
But they evidently sorely lack in diversity, especially at a design decision-maker level, and are now exporting products for a global market.
And this is the result. Good pick-up and a great article.
Capcom didn't learn anything. First of all, there's nothing wrong with sexualizing female characters. Specifically Sheva. Gamers love sexy female characters in skimpy clothing. Sheva's outfit caught a lot of male gamers including female gamers (like me) attention.
No one cares about feminism. Abby from TLOU 2 is disgusting. That's why the game failed and Resident Evil 5 succeeded.
Great post. You might want to check out "The Electric Underground" on YouTube. He's a big Tekken fan as well as has covered Tekken 8 in some videos. Like you, he isn't happy with the direction of the series.
Well-articulated as per usual.
I think the thing you're missing here, and probably considered yourself but decided to cut for expediency's sake, is that Tekken 8 is being developed in the wake of Soul Calibur's demise. Soul Calibur is a weapon fighter and was always the goofier, less technical sibling of the two. Namco's inability to properly manage and promote 2 separate fighting games at once means you have a lot of senior devs from that team floating around in the T8 offices, pitching ideas and influencing the design philosophy. In fact, the wall tech Miary has in her trailer is a mechanic borrowed from Cervantes in Soul Calibur. Weirdly enough I think I'm probably more likely to buy her and try to pick her up than any of the other season 2 characters.
I'll say for my own part that I enjoy Tekken 8 quite a bit, but it's got fundamental issues. I could write an essay on the Heat system in particular and why it creates more problems than it can ever solve. I'm looking forward to the new Virtua Fighter from the RGG studio guys. This series is badly in need of competition to keep it honest, ironically enough, T7 played a similar role by siphoning players away from Street Fighter 5, leading to SF6's almost unprecedented popularity a few years later. Cause for optimism, I'd say.
There's quite a few things I wanted to mention but you're right about cutting for expediency, this was supposed to be a more bite-sized article but it's kind of blowing up in a way I didn't expect.
I don't need to add anything here, you're spot on about the cross-pollination and Soul Calibur's identity. I also love SC but those are two identities that shouldn't mix.
I also, in the long-term think that Tekken 8 will improve but I'm pessimistic for a return to the grounded Tekken of 7 and its predecessors since the Heat system (at least in the way it's been implemented now) is incompatible with that type of gameplay.
The problem, I think, with T7 was that by the time it ended it was kind of a solved game. You saw more and more pro sets where the optimal strategy was to win the first 10 seconds of a round and then play keep away for the next 50. It makes sense that they'd try for something that rewards more aggression, but they never quite figured out how to apply that philosophy to characters like Kaz and Paul that have always rewarded players with strong defensive fundamentals.
As for Heat, I just think that's a classic example of a dev doing something because competitors are doing it. Namco saw the Drive System in Street Fighter 6 and decided they needed something similar. I think the FGC as a whole is beginning to get sick of meter inflation and endless cinematic cutscenes/stance mixups.
Famously non-sexualized series Tekken.
The issue with Tekken 8 has nothing to do with Miary Zo’s design. The series has had laser beams and fighting kangaroos for a long time. Your portrayal of it as a grimdark series is myopic, and ignores the actual major issue of Tekken 8, which is that it feels like shit to play.
I didn't ignore the issue at all, it's just hard to go into specifics when my audience is generslly not acquainted with the series but I do generally agree. Tekken 8 plays like garbage and is conceptually unfixable to a degree where it will feel like Tekken again.
You are pointing out exceptions, not rules.
Got a torrent of abuse under this article (not from you) and had an awful time engaging with the community post-Season 2 so we can add the awful Tekken player base to that list of biggest problems. No wonder Harada left, the man was getting death threats every other week.
"Some of the first games I played on the humble PS2..."
Bugger me I feel old.
I still think of the PS3/360 as being new consoles... also feeling old
Tekken fans are tired of sexualized female characters? Speak for yourself! Sex sells! Take your feminism elsewhere!
PS: I'm a woman
When a series has been known for a dark martial arts aesthetic for 30 years and suddenly pivots to skimpy female characters in bright colours I take issue. I don't really care about sexy female characters, I care about series I used to enjoy looking unrecognisable. I like large breasts as much as the next 20-something year old man.
I'm not a feminist or any other label you want to try and pin me with, my critiques aren't ideology-based, when I play a Tekken game I expect it to look and sound like a Tekken game.
The problem with your critiques is that you are speaking for everyone and not yourself. Gamers like sexy female characters. I mean just take a look at Abby from TLOU 2. Gamers found her to be disgusting, specifically during the sex scene.
Are you in the Tekken community? Have you put serious time into the games or spent time around Tekken fans? You're right, I can only speak for myself but the overwhelming majority of the player base are not happy with the state of modern Tekken and the character designs are a big part of it; a quick trip to the comments section of any Tekken video or to forums like Reddit will confirm this for you.
Yes, there will be people who enjoy these character designs too, I know gamers like sexy female characters and I like sexy women too but not when it fundamentally clashes with the tone and style of an established series. I don't actually disagree with you in principle: sex does sell and gamers like sexy women but in this context it is hurting Tekken; Tekken 8's player count has shrivelled up massively.
Look at Unknown's design from Tekken Tag 2 or some of Nina's old costumes, those are still sensual and alluring but darker and more thematic, that's better design.
Tekken has never been known for being dark. It's always been known for being flashy and playful. The character designs haven't changed that much. Just some minor alterations.
You're obviously not involved in the Tekken community because everyone has gone back to play it since the balance fixtures.
Not really sure what to say to that, entitled to your own opinion and all that, not the way I see it at all, thanks for commenting/subscribing
Nice breakdown of the facts. I can't say I understand all the details, but that's because the last Tekken game I played with regularity was Tekken 3 on the PlayStation...and I was never much of a strategic fighter anyway. So I can't fathom the granular level of knowledge folks like you have.
Tekken is so abyssally deep that I'm very much an amateur too, even after several hundred hours of play and consuming lots of Tekken content. Still, I'm glad this article has connected with people, a lot more than I anticipated actually.
I think we are watching the DOAzation of Tekken for some time now. I thought they learned a lesson after the disastrous S2, but I guess I was wrong.
As someone who plays Tekken since its first iteration (is basically the first game I ever played on the PSX), it's getting harder and harder to get behind T8.
I agree and it’s really disappointing. There’s nothing like Tekken; I’ve never liked Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat so with Soul Calibur also dead my interest in the genre has effectively been drawn to a close
Beyond Tekken Tag there is no Tekken
I enjoyed Tekken 7 wholeheartedly with it's jank and quirks. I was then hyped and waited for T8. Bought it at launch. Now I honestly regret spending that amount of money on a product that has to keep afloat by creating gooner bait - among other problems.
I enjoyed it initially, expecting things to get better but as time passed, not only did things not improve but it became clear that the whole design of the game is incompatible with traditional, high quality Tekken
Oh. No. This feels like Resident Evil 5, with Sheva all over again. Except this time, its 2025.
Capcom learned their lesson there back in 2009, and over 15 years later, I hope Bandi Namco gets the memo.
The Japanese game dev industry has a lot going for it. They retain staff and build careers for their team better than any other region. Their games are consistently high quality as a direct result.
But they evidently sorely lack in diversity, especially at a design decision-maker level, and are now exporting products for a global market.
And this is the result. Good pick-up and a great article.
Capcom didn't learn anything. First of all, there's nothing wrong with sexualizing female characters. Specifically Sheva. Gamers love sexy female characters in skimpy clothing. Sheva's outfit caught a lot of male gamers including female gamers (like me) attention.
No one cares about feminism. Abby from TLOU 2 is disgusting. That's why the game failed and Resident Evil 5 succeeded.
Great post. You might want to check out "The Electric Underground" on YouTube. He's a big Tekken fan as well as has covered Tekken 8 in some videos. Like you, he isn't happy with the direction of the series.