It was so great to listen to the tracks as I read. Thanks for including those youtube videos. Damn, I love your enthusiasm for this game. I really got to hand it to you for giving this game its proper textual optimism i’ve always felt for it. Honestly it felt close to playing it again. And also, great meta-game commentary as well.
If there's one series I have enthusiasm for it's Zelda, it's probably the most consistently excellent franchise in gaming in my opinion. You wait until we get onto my actual favourites.
Always so glad to read comments from people who are really into the reviews, I put a lot of effort into these but they tend to get only a small fraction of the reads that my lists/more opinionated stuff does, cheers!
Twilight Princess was the ultimate statement on 3D/modern Zelda. Everything that had been tried, experimented with, and done before was in it.
It’s very curious how the darker tone of TP is, in retrospect, taken as “try-hard” while the darker tone of Majora’s Mask is taken as a sign of maturity. Probably because Majora’s tone was seen as being against the grain in the N64/PS1 era while TP is now seen as following the aesthetic trends of the 7th generation.
That's a good assessment, it does contain a little bit of each of them (with a not-so-subtle dash of A Link To The Past too) but with its own aesthetic removed even from Majora. I think you're right on the tone too and I think it's often placed in that wider era of games with drab graphics.
It's heartwarming to hear someone who appreciate this one as much as you do. I still have my GCN copy of this game and don't thread it for the world. Thanks for the memories! Awesome read, as always.
TP was kind of a victim of its time, at least in terms of its short-term reception. For all the things to complain about it, and there are a lot, almost every single one of them is wildly overblown by most people who bring them up. The grimdark edginess, the waggle controls, the useless items, the sluggish, miserable pace... well, actually I guess it can't really be exaggerated how bad the pacing is. The waggle control complaint is especially silly, riding on the heels of all the reporting and discourse about people hamhandedly chucking their Wiimotes out of windows and into TVs and alongside their toddler's head. I know there's a lot of out of shape and uncoordinated people playing videogames but even when I see people plowing into walls with VR headsets on some part of me assumes they're faking it. You don't even need to actually do much to get the sword swings to register, and anyone getting tuckered out by that much physical activity while playing a videogame probably needs to consult a cardiologist.
I think the thing that always stuck with me the most about TP is the design of the Twilight monsters and environments, combined with the weird, synth honking audio design that accompanied them - they feel like a genuinely unique take on the kind of 'parallel dark world' incursion that most other things would just rip off Giger paintings and the like for [see: Darkseed] but work perfectly well in the Zelda world... and I like them more than the Zonai and Sheikah stuff in the new games.
Couldn't agree more. If Twilight Princess was 2002's Zelda instead of the, in my opinion, rather weak The Wind Waker then maybe the Gamecube (which was actually more powerful than the PS2) could have kicked its reputation as the kiddy console that couldn't play 'real' games. It wasn't particularly edgy and as you say, the waggle controls are way overblown; the Wii gets absolutely shit on in retro gaming/collecting circles and it sort of irritates me, one of the best Nintendo 1st party libraries: better than the Gamecube's in my opinion.
I have purchased and then sold VR headsets... twice. Also found it very hard to injure myself, besides a small cut on my finger one time by a strategically-laced jutting plastic object on my shelf. Wish VR had more/better games, Bonelab was incredibly disappointing and besides Blade And Sorcery and VTOL VR I just couldn't find a damn thing to do, in the end I wanted the extra cash to help build my current rig.
I also much prefer them to all that but it's a low bar, I find Wilds-era Zelda to have the weakest lore and storytelling in the series. Skyward Sword is the only 3D Zelda I've never played so I won't comment but... should have been a Twilight sequel, in tone and design.
I genuinely think the biggest failing of the Wii was that they never had a proper 'pro' controller - the terrible 'classic' controllers you still had to plug into a Wiimote are crap, and the fact that you always, ALWAYS had to have a Wiimote involved meant that everyone just developed everything for Wiimote controls. I think even if it weren't a pack-in, having a decent standalone wireless controller to play Gamecube games and a handful of non-gimmicky ports/Virtual Console games with would've been a massive boost to its presentation.
There still aren't many killer apps for VR, despite all the money and years poured into it, but there are a handful that I think are worth going out of your way for, and enough on the horizon that I won't part with my headset anytime soon. RE4 in VR is ironically a lot like the Wii port, and RE4 is always fun. VR Skater is the best workout I've ever gotten inside, Skyrim VR is something that has to be experienced to believe, and there's a never-ending list of mods and ports being made by the community to give you an excuse to replay games in VR, and some, like the Team Beef ports of classic FPS games, really make it a new experience, and are on par with any official port job.
It's utterly confusing that the Gamecube controller ports literally built into the console didn't work outside of a set number of games and even then they were not fully integrated and required you to use the Wiimote to operate menus. Baffling decision. So many games are better played with that classic controller but require the Wiimote dangling about like a flaccid penis and like you say, it was much inferior to the Gamecube pad.
Oh yes, loved RE4 in VR as well, to be honest I never made full use of it but I'm always somewhat mod-resistant being a console gamer 1st and PC gamer 2nd and I've had some maddening experiences trying to get stuff working in the past. A god technology but those who are convinced it's the future of gaming need a bit of a reality check IMO
Such a great experience, this one. I'll never forget playing this on the Wii, feeling like I was in the future. I do feel like they rushed this game a bit, but what it does well - story, atmosphere, characters - it absolutely nails. Great post, well worth the wait!
I appreciate it. Twilight Princess falls a little short of being among my favourite Zelda games but it's absolutely in that upper echelon of Zelda games
It was so great to listen to the tracks as I read. Thanks for including those youtube videos. Damn, I love your enthusiasm for this game. I really got to hand it to you for giving this game its proper textual optimism i’ve always felt for it. Honestly it felt close to playing it again. And also, great meta-game commentary as well.
If there's one series I have enthusiasm for it's Zelda, it's probably the most consistently excellent franchise in gaming in my opinion. You wait until we get onto my actual favourites.
Always so glad to read comments from people who are really into the reviews, I put a lot of effort into these but they tend to get only a small fraction of the reads that my lists/more opinionated stuff does, cheers!
And they really haven’t missed with Zelda, have they…
Even your negative criticism leveled was out of admiration for its potential.
I can tell a lot of care went into it! Cheers!
Twilight Princess was the ultimate statement on 3D/modern Zelda. Everything that had been tried, experimented with, and done before was in it.
It’s very curious how the darker tone of TP is, in retrospect, taken as “try-hard” while the darker tone of Majora’s Mask is taken as a sign of maturity. Probably because Majora’s tone was seen as being against the grain in the N64/PS1 era while TP is now seen as following the aesthetic trends of the 7th generation.
Wasn't expecting a comment from a former POTUS.
That's a good assessment, it does contain a little bit of each of them (with a not-so-subtle dash of A Link To The Past too) but with its own aesthetic removed even from Majora. I think you're right on the tone too and I think it's often placed in that wider era of games with drab graphics.
It's heartwarming to hear someone who appreciate this one as much as you do. I still have my GCN copy of this game and don't thread it for the world. Thanks for the memories! Awesome read, as always.
Glad you liked it! Definitely a version of the game to guard jealously it's so expensive now and probably the best way to play.
TP was kind of a victim of its time, at least in terms of its short-term reception. For all the things to complain about it, and there are a lot, almost every single one of them is wildly overblown by most people who bring them up. The grimdark edginess, the waggle controls, the useless items, the sluggish, miserable pace... well, actually I guess it can't really be exaggerated how bad the pacing is. The waggle control complaint is especially silly, riding on the heels of all the reporting and discourse about people hamhandedly chucking their Wiimotes out of windows and into TVs and alongside their toddler's head. I know there's a lot of out of shape and uncoordinated people playing videogames but even when I see people plowing into walls with VR headsets on some part of me assumes they're faking it. You don't even need to actually do much to get the sword swings to register, and anyone getting tuckered out by that much physical activity while playing a videogame probably needs to consult a cardiologist.
I think the thing that always stuck with me the most about TP is the design of the Twilight monsters and environments, combined with the weird, synth honking audio design that accompanied them - they feel like a genuinely unique take on the kind of 'parallel dark world' incursion that most other things would just rip off Giger paintings and the like for [see: Darkseed] but work perfectly well in the Zelda world... and I like them more than the Zonai and Sheikah stuff in the new games.
Couldn't agree more. If Twilight Princess was 2002's Zelda instead of the, in my opinion, rather weak The Wind Waker then maybe the Gamecube (which was actually more powerful than the PS2) could have kicked its reputation as the kiddy console that couldn't play 'real' games. It wasn't particularly edgy and as you say, the waggle controls are way overblown; the Wii gets absolutely shit on in retro gaming/collecting circles and it sort of irritates me, one of the best Nintendo 1st party libraries: better than the Gamecube's in my opinion.
I have purchased and then sold VR headsets... twice. Also found it very hard to injure myself, besides a small cut on my finger one time by a strategically-laced jutting plastic object on my shelf. Wish VR had more/better games, Bonelab was incredibly disappointing and besides Blade And Sorcery and VTOL VR I just couldn't find a damn thing to do, in the end I wanted the extra cash to help build my current rig.
I also much prefer them to all that but it's a low bar, I find Wilds-era Zelda to have the weakest lore and storytelling in the series. Skyward Sword is the only 3D Zelda I've never played so I won't comment but... should have been a Twilight sequel, in tone and design.
I genuinely think the biggest failing of the Wii was that they never had a proper 'pro' controller - the terrible 'classic' controllers you still had to plug into a Wiimote are crap, and the fact that you always, ALWAYS had to have a Wiimote involved meant that everyone just developed everything for Wiimote controls. I think even if it weren't a pack-in, having a decent standalone wireless controller to play Gamecube games and a handful of non-gimmicky ports/Virtual Console games with would've been a massive boost to its presentation.
There still aren't many killer apps for VR, despite all the money and years poured into it, but there are a handful that I think are worth going out of your way for, and enough on the horizon that I won't part with my headset anytime soon. RE4 in VR is ironically a lot like the Wii port, and RE4 is always fun. VR Skater is the best workout I've ever gotten inside, Skyrim VR is something that has to be experienced to believe, and there's a never-ending list of mods and ports being made by the community to give you an excuse to replay games in VR, and some, like the Team Beef ports of classic FPS games, really make it a new experience, and are on par with any official port job.
It's utterly confusing that the Gamecube controller ports literally built into the console didn't work outside of a set number of games and even then they were not fully integrated and required you to use the Wiimote to operate menus. Baffling decision. So many games are better played with that classic controller but require the Wiimote dangling about like a flaccid penis and like you say, it was much inferior to the Gamecube pad.
Oh yes, loved RE4 in VR as well, to be honest I never made full use of it but I'm always somewhat mod-resistant being a console gamer 1st and PC gamer 2nd and I've had some maddening experiences trying to get stuff working in the past. A god technology but those who are convinced it's the future of gaming need a bit of a reality check IMO
Such a great experience, this one. I'll never forget playing this on the Wii, feeling like I was in the future. I do feel like they rushed this game a bit, but what it does well - story, atmosphere, characters - it absolutely nails. Great post, well worth the wait!
Cheers! It's definitely among the upper crust of the franchise, but never quite embraces its own ideas for me
Probably one of the very first games I played in full, it'll always hold a special place in my heart. Great writeup
I appreciate it. Twilight Princess falls a little short of being among my favourite Zelda games but it's absolutely in that upper echelon of Zelda games