I used to love JRPGs as a kid, but somewhere along the way I lost interest. I think this is a common story. In those days, JRPGs offered something unlike any other game. Now there’s not much to make them stand out, and what does make them stand out is mostly bad.
I enjoyed the Final Fantasies up through X, which came out when I was in college. In the 20+ years since, I’ve tried a fair number of JRPGs. I liked Octopath Traveller, but not enough to finish it. Haven’t played the sequel.
But Persona 5 got me back into the genre. I don’t even like anime. Too long, but amazing game nonetheless.
I've not tried Persona 5, I'll look into it a little more since several people I've known/met who also don't like JRPG's ended up liking that or the one on Vita.
I played one of the Final Fantasy games as a kid on PS2 (I have no clue which one, I vaguely remember something about Sky Pirates) but I didn't like it and I watched a friend play a few hours FF16; the PC port looked quite bad and the plot and writing were profoundly unengaging to me, that being said, I'd like to try FF3 (6) on the SNES someday.
I'm glad you mentioned Octopath Traveller because that's on my considering list too. Right now I'm going to play the other Xenoblade games, Octopath Traveller, Dragon Quest 11 and then maybe Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast and I'll see how I go from there. This will take me a long while though, I'm only about 1/3 into Xeno X and I've already spent the amount of time on it I like most games to last.
Edit: The way you feel about JRPG's is kind of how I feel about shooters. Loved them when I was younger, largely stopped caring later and only recently got back into them with Goldeneye on the N64 of all things.
That would be FF12, which was the first real-time FF game. I liked it OK but didn't finish it and considered it a big disappointment after FFX, which probably had the best combat system of any turn-based FF game and a very engaging plot.
I also couldn't get into DQ11. I didn't play enough to really say what my complaint is with the game though, just nothing about it clicked for me, I felt no urge to play any more of it. I only tried it on Game Pass.
Octopath is definitely a game made to be compared to FF6, which was my favorite JRPG of my childhood. The engaging parts of Octopath are the combat and character customization systems. Also good music, and I dig the graphical style. Unfortunately the writing is very uneven and even its best moments don't compare that well to FF6. Also you'll find there are big problems with balance.
SNES RPGs beg for a fast forward button, by the way, due to too many encounters and very simple combats. I've replayed them a few times as an adult, but I'm very heavy on that fast forward. This also helped the modern FF7 ports. For me, I don't think they'd be playable without it.
If the “anime” aspect of JRPGs is something that turns you away, I can’t recommend the Shin Megami Tensei franchise enough. They are mostly devoid of the trope-y nonsense and are a little more on the mature fantasy side of things. If you are willing to sit through some challenge (and a bit of bullshit) they can be the most rewarding and engaging turn based games the industry has to offer. Recommend starting with SMT V Vengeance, the most recent release. Very polished game
Never opposed to a bit of bullshit! Xenoblade X certainly has plenty of that too. I'll look into it, somebody I've known for quite a long time is also into this series and counts several of them among his favourite games ever made.
I read once a description of JRPGs [and I think the Dragon Quest franchise in particular] that really stuck with me. The idea is that they're the gaming equivalent of comfort food, familiar and somewhat sedating media largely designed to be consumed by Japanese salarymen to wind down over the course of a few months on evenings and weekends, and anyone else engaging with them will always have some points of friction with the genre due to that. Personally, I feel the same way about the Ubisoft open-world model and I think that is the closest comparison for the West - if you're jumping into a game like that and knocking out a few nearby outposts, gradually whittling away at the map, it's a lot like grinding out a few levels in a JRPG, and if you're trying to just beat, say, a modern Far Cry game without engaging with the speed bumps, you're in for a frustrating time.
But I also think the genre is a bit broad and is easy to make assumptions about based on generalities. I agree with the sentiment that JRPGs have bad pacing, dull writing, and tedious gameplay... for the most part. But like most things there is a sliding scale, and with JRPGs it mostly falls along two axes, the narrative and the mechanical. For both aspects, there are games that are more or less engaging, depending on the developer's focus and the targeted demographic's preferences. The reason I think most JRPGs seem to have banal casts, repetitive writing, and boring drama is because they're intentionally emulating the kind of schlock anime the intended player is comfortable having on in the background while they're doing stuff. Meanwhile, on the mechanical side, there are plenty of modern JRPGs that stretch the definition of the genre with arcade-y action or have confusing and convoluted turn-based combat, but the majority still tends to lean towards the kind of thing you can do while watching a show or listening to a podcast.
And, as you pointed out, I think the most important quality in JRPGs isn't either of those, but the setting. More than most other genres, the backdrop the game takes place in front of is far and away the thing that determines whether people settle in or not - a strong visual design framework, coherent worldbuilding, and consistent tone can easily cause people to overlook bad writing and any other obvious flaw. I'd say this is true for all RPGs, not just those of the Japanese persuasion, but it's arguably more appreciable there due to extremes.
Now, depending on your own preferences, and how exactly you're trying to engage with any particular JRPG, you can quickly become bored or very frustrated with them, and write off the whole genre. I'd like to make a case for a few recommendations that shouldn't require you to get into the mindset of an exhausted middle aged office worker.
First, and most strongly, Helen's Mysterious Castle - this is superficially a random RPGMaker game, but has an incredibly tight pacing and a genuinely engaging combat system that combines customization and turn order manipulation to give you some surprising depth to one-on-one fights. I would recommend it regardless of the topic of JRPGs.
Secondly, the first two Paper Mario games - these hold up extremely well, and combine some of the best defined settings in JRPGs and just enough engagement in the combat to stand out. They are long games, but never feel like they're just wasting time or forcing a grind on you, and have a lot of humor and charm that isn't lost in localization.
Third, I'd like to encourage you to give at least the first Like a Dragon Yakuza game a shot - it nails the setting and tone, has some of the best writing and characters in any JRPG I've ever played, and the silliness of the combat helps cover up its mechanical faults. The sequel is mechanically superior but narratively inferior, but still decent.
Finally, I recently replayed the first Dragon Quest trilogy, and I really enjoyed the way I could see the genre crystalizing over the course of the three games, on top of them not being nearly as expansive and exhausting as tackling even one of the later entries would be. If you really want to grapple with where the genre came from and what the next three decades of JRPGs were trying to emulate, I think there's no better place than the first three DQs.
I really appreciate such a detailed, well thought out and in-depth comment. This is exactly the kind of discussion and civility I hope to promote with what I write which is sorely lacking on the internet.
I think your comparison to Ubisoft's open world games males a lot of sense and I would go even further and add hat I believe GTA games have a similar appeal; I don't like those games at all but when I hear people who are really passionate about the franchise discuss them, it's never the characters or the gameplay, it's always something like "I loved how San Andreas captured the West Coast." Or "I loved how Vice city immersed me into the 1980's."
Now for your recommendations. I didn't make it very clear I realise but I did actually play and finish Yakuza/Like A Dragon 7 but I didn't like it very much, for more reasons than the combat and RPG mechanics. I find it difficult to separate that game from my general bitterness at the change in genre and the sharp correction towards a comedic focus in that franchise so I chose to kind of ignore it. That's no to say it's without merit though and I do agree with many of the positives you listed, I ended up really liking Ichiban by the end of the game.
I've not heard of Helen's Mysterious Castle so I won't comment without looking into it but I will say that Paper Mario is on my radar, the only barrier being the price of The Thousand Year Door on Gamecube as I try to vote with my wallet and not encourage more remakes.
Am I correct in remembering that the first three Dragon Quest games are for the NES? If so I'll see if I can snap those up, NES games tend to be quite cheap here in the UK and my current NES library is very small so I'm looking to expand it this year.
I absolutely agree regarding GTA - there's a lot of good reasons for that series's enduring appeal, but I think the strength of the setting is paramount for the people who really get into them. The same is obviously true of Red Dead Redemption, particularly 2, and despite them not technically being RPGs, all those games really combine a lot of the appeals of RPGs and general open-world progression games.
I can also totally understand where you're coming from regarding Yak7 - I came into it having not played through a full Yakuza game before, and so I wasn't forced to adjust to the many changes, but as I gather, a lot of long-time franchise fans found it tough, especially with a lead protagonist that carries a totally different tone to the setting. I do want to mention one detail I think is really important, which is that Ichiban's character and a lot of the things they did with the setting, character design, and combat, are directly influenced, and very specifically and explicitly so, by Dragon Quest. I think close familiarity with that series gives some additional context and framing to the character and game than approaching it as a simple twist to 'turn-based Yakuza' does.
And on the DQ trilogy itself, I have to admit that my most recent replays were actually on my phone, with the mobile ports being derived [I believe] from the SNES ports - the SNES ports themselves have some quality of life improvements over the original NES releases, and the mobile port then adds more on top of that, but I think every version is perfectly playable. I have never played them on SNES hardware myself, only the original Dragon Warrior NA releases for NES.
I can definitely see how you had a better first experience, I wouldn't call myself a long-time Yakuza fan or anything but I played the first game a little bit on the PS2 as a kid and before 7 came out I played all the others and they really helped cheer me up during lockdown. It's not exactly the same (since I think all Zelda fans like it) but it reminds me a little bit of the gap between Switch-era newcomers to Zelda and long-time fans like myself, whole different set of things they value.
I did hear that it was a bit of a tribute to Dragon Quest but I've only ever played 9and never finished) one of the DQ games on DS so that franchise is not one I have strong opinions on.
So many impressive mobile ports these days, I remember discovering the Sonic ports for mobile a few years ago out of nowhere and almost missing my stop on the bus playing them. I might seek out those SNES versions though SNES era JRPG's tend to be hazardous for the health of your wallet
Would those be the Classic ports of the original Sonic games? I never played them but I was aware of them, as they were good enough that the developers went on to make Sonic Mania with Sega's blessing.
I've not dipped too far into the community (for spoiler reasons) but I was aware going in that X isn't really anybody's favourite Xenoblade game; I much prefer the character and story driven stuff to open world exploration so I suspect once I'm done with the rest, it won't be mine either.
Thanks for reading! It's definitely not put me off but I wouldn't say I'm a fan yet either, I will definitely play more games in the genre to get a firmer grasp on what I like; in the case of X, I was feeling a bit frustrated and burned out on the game when I finished this article but I finished Chapter 5 a few days later and the plot twist combined with unlocking the overdrive mechanic has really re-engaged me with the game
I completely agree with both what you like and don't like about this game, but man, I sunk so much time into XCX on the Wii U back in the day.
For me, it always came back to the world and to the combat. Mira remains one of the most immersive worlds I've ever seen in a game. It's incredible. The auto timed combat was also revelatory to me, a real step up from the traditional turn-based combat that I grew up with as a kid.
That said... the music is all over the place (those New LA themes, what were they thinking), the mechanics are often obtuse, and the quests are mostly garbage.
I can see why, I actually almost put a line in this article about wishing I played the game younger, the amount to do in this game is great and I have to say, as much as I like the Wii-U library this has really been the game that's made my purchase of this console feel worthwhile.
The Skells really seem to be the light at the end of the tunnel at the moment. From about Level 15 onwards the game has been frustrating me every session but I know without Overdrive and the Skells I'm really only eating 1/3 of the combat, this motivates me because I'm actually really liking that part of the game. I refused to take the lower-difficulty option on the Chapter 4 boss and after several attempts, finally beating her was really rewarding.
Forgot to mention it but the way the gamepad is used is really cool too.
It's so well integrated I actually struggle to imagine the game without it; it's probably on a menu which is a bit of an issue for me since the game's UI is already quite bloated
Have you tried Persona 5?
I used to love JRPGs as a kid, but somewhere along the way I lost interest. I think this is a common story. In those days, JRPGs offered something unlike any other game. Now there’s not much to make them stand out, and what does make them stand out is mostly bad.
I enjoyed the Final Fantasies up through X, which came out when I was in college. In the 20+ years since, I’ve tried a fair number of JRPGs. I liked Octopath Traveller, but not enough to finish it. Haven’t played the sequel.
But Persona 5 got me back into the genre. I don’t even like anime. Too long, but amazing game nonetheless.
I've not tried Persona 5, I'll look into it a little more since several people I've known/met who also don't like JRPG's ended up liking that or the one on Vita.
I played one of the Final Fantasy games as a kid on PS2 (I have no clue which one, I vaguely remember something about Sky Pirates) but I didn't like it and I watched a friend play a few hours FF16; the PC port looked quite bad and the plot and writing were profoundly unengaging to me, that being said, I'd like to try FF3 (6) on the SNES someday.
I'm glad you mentioned Octopath Traveller because that's on my considering list too. Right now I'm going to play the other Xenoblade games, Octopath Traveller, Dragon Quest 11 and then maybe Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast and I'll see how I go from there. This will take me a long while though, I'm only about 1/3 into Xeno X and I've already spent the amount of time on it I like most games to last.
Edit: The way you feel about JRPG's is kind of how I feel about shooters. Loved them when I was younger, largely stopped caring later and only recently got back into them with Goldeneye on the N64 of all things.
That would be FF12, which was the first real-time FF game. I liked it OK but didn't finish it and considered it a big disappointment after FFX, which probably had the best combat system of any turn-based FF game and a very engaging plot.
I also couldn't get into DQ11. I didn't play enough to really say what my complaint is with the game though, just nothing about it clicked for me, I felt no urge to play any more of it. I only tried it on Game Pass.
Octopath is definitely a game made to be compared to FF6, which was my favorite JRPG of my childhood. The engaging parts of Octopath are the combat and character customization systems. Also good music, and I dig the graphical style. Unfortunately the writing is very uneven and even its best moments don't compare that well to FF6. Also you'll find there are big problems with balance.
SNES RPGs beg for a fast forward button, by the way, due to too many encounters and very simple combats. I've replayed them a few times as an adult, but I'm very heavy on that fast forward. This also helped the modern FF7 ports. For me, I don't think they'd be playable without it.
I'll keep that in mind and in that case I may seek out remasters first and foremost, especially as a lot of legacy JRPG's tend to be very expensive
If the “anime” aspect of JRPGs is something that turns you away, I can’t recommend the Shin Megami Tensei franchise enough. They are mostly devoid of the trope-y nonsense and are a little more on the mature fantasy side of things. If you are willing to sit through some challenge (and a bit of bullshit) they can be the most rewarding and engaging turn based games the industry has to offer. Recommend starting with SMT V Vengeance, the most recent release. Very polished game
Never opposed to a bit of bullshit! Xenoblade X certainly has plenty of that too. I'll look into it, somebody I've known for quite a long time is also into this series and counts several of them among his favourite games ever made.
I read once a description of JRPGs [and I think the Dragon Quest franchise in particular] that really stuck with me. The idea is that they're the gaming equivalent of comfort food, familiar and somewhat sedating media largely designed to be consumed by Japanese salarymen to wind down over the course of a few months on evenings and weekends, and anyone else engaging with them will always have some points of friction with the genre due to that. Personally, I feel the same way about the Ubisoft open-world model and I think that is the closest comparison for the West - if you're jumping into a game like that and knocking out a few nearby outposts, gradually whittling away at the map, it's a lot like grinding out a few levels in a JRPG, and if you're trying to just beat, say, a modern Far Cry game without engaging with the speed bumps, you're in for a frustrating time.
But I also think the genre is a bit broad and is easy to make assumptions about based on generalities. I agree with the sentiment that JRPGs have bad pacing, dull writing, and tedious gameplay... for the most part. But like most things there is a sliding scale, and with JRPGs it mostly falls along two axes, the narrative and the mechanical. For both aspects, there are games that are more or less engaging, depending on the developer's focus and the targeted demographic's preferences. The reason I think most JRPGs seem to have banal casts, repetitive writing, and boring drama is because they're intentionally emulating the kind of schlock anime the intended player is comfortable having on in the background while they're doing stuff. Meanwhile, on the mechanical side, there are plenty of modern JRPGs that stretch the definition of the genre with arcade-y action or have confusing and convoluted turn-based combat, but the majority still tends to lean towards the kind of thing you can do while watching a show or listening to a podcast.
And, as you pointed out, I think the most important quality in JRPGs isn't either of those, but the setting. More than most other genres, the backdrop the game takes place in front of is far and away the thing that determines whether people settle in or not - a strong visual design framework, coherent worldbuilding, and consistent tone can easily cause people to overlook bad writing and any other obvious flaw. I'd say this is true for all RPGs, not just those of the Japanese persuasion, but it's arguably more appreciable there due to extremes.
Now, depending on your own preferences, and how exactly you're trying to engage with any particular JRPG, you can quickly become bored or very frustrated with them, and write off the whole genre. I'd like to make a case for a few recommendations that shouldn't require you to get into the mindset of an exhausted middle aged office worker.
First, and most strongly, Helen's Mysterious Castle - this is superficially a random RPGMaker game, but has an incredibly tight pacing and a genuinely engaging combat system that combines customization and turn order manipulation to give you some surprising depth to one-on-one fights. I would recommend it regardless of the topic of JRPGs.
Secondly, the first two Paper Mario games - these hold up extremely well, and combine some of the best defined settings in JRPGs and just enough engagement in the combat to stand out. They are long games, but never feel like they're just wasting time or forcing a grind on you, and have a lot of humor and charm that isn't lost in localization.
Third, I'd like to encourage you to give at least the first Like a Dragon Yakuza game a shot - it nails the setting and tone, has some of the best writing and characters in any JRPG I've ever played, and the silliness of the combat helps cover up its mechanical faults. The sequel is mechanically superior but narratively inferior, but still decent.
Finally, I recently replayed the first Dragon Quest trilogy, and I really enjoyed the way I could see the genre crystalizing over the course of the three games, on top of them not being nearly as expansive and exhausting as tackling even one of the later entries would be. If you really want to grapple with where the genre came from and what the next three decades of JRPGs were trying to emulate, I think there's no better place than the first three DQs.
I really appreciate such a detailed, well thought out and in-depth comment. This is exactly the kind of discussion and civility I hope to promote with what I write which is sorely lacking on the internet.
I think your comparison to Ubisoft's open world games males a lot of sense and I would go even further and add hat I believe GTA games have a similar appeal; I don't like those games at all but when I hear people who are really passionate about the franchise discuss them, it's never the characters or the gameplay, it's always something like "I loved how San Andreas captured the West Coast." Or "I loved how Vice city immersed me into the 1980's."
Now for your recommendations. I didn't make it very clear I realise but I did actually play and finish Yakuza/Like A Dragon 7 but I didn't like it very much, for more reasons than the combat and RPG mechanics. I find it difficult to separate that game from my general bitterness at the change in genre and the sharp correction towards a comedic focus in that franchise so I chose to kind of ignore it. That's no to say it's without merit though and I do agree with many of the positives you listed, I ended up really liking Ichiban by the end of the game.
I've not heard of Helen's Mysterious Castle so I won't comment without looking into it but I will say that Paper Mario is on my radar, the only barrier being the price of The Thousand Year Door on Gamecube as I try to vote with my wallet and not encourage more remakes.
Am I correct in remembering that the first three Dragon Quest games are for the NES? If so I'll see if I can snap those up, NES games tend to be quite cheap here in the UK and my current NES library is very small so I'm looking to expand it this year.
I absolutely agree regarding GTA - there's a lot of good reasons for that series's enduring appeal, but I think the strength of the setting is paramount for the people who really get into them. The same is obviously true of Red Dead Redemption, particularly 2, and despite them not technically being RPGs, all those games really combine a lot of the appeals of RPGs and general open-world progression games.
I can also totally understand where you're coming from regarding Yak7 - I came into it having not played through a full Yakuza game before, and so I wasn't forced to adjust to the many changes, but as I gather, a lot of long-time franchise fans found it tough, especially with a lead protagonist that carries a totally different tone to the setting. I do want to mention one detail I think is really important, which is that Ichiban's character and a lot of the things they did with the setting, character design, and combat, are directly influenced, and very specifically and explicitly so, by Dragon Quest. I think close familiarity with that series gives some additional context and framing to the character and game than approaching it as a simple twist to 'turn-based Yakuza' does.
And on the DQ trilogy itself, I have to admit that my most recent replays were actually on my phone, with the mobile ports being derived [I believe] from the SNES ports - the SNES ports themselves have some quality of life improvements over the original NES releases, and the mobile port then adds more on top of that, but I think every version is perfectly playable. I have never played them on SNES hardware myself, only the original Dragon Warrior NA releases for NES.
I can definitely see how you had a better first experience, I wouldn't call myself a long-time Yakuza fan or anything but I played the first game a little bit on the PS2 as a kid and before 7 came out I played all the others and they really helped cheer me up during lockdown. It's not exactly the same (since I think all Zelda fans like it) but it reminds me a little bit of the gap between Switch-era newcomers to Zelda and long-time fans like myself, whole different set of things they value.
I did hear that it was a bit of a tribute to Dragon Quest but I've only ever played 9and never finished) one of the DQ games on DS so that franchise is not one I have strong opinions on.
So many impressive mobile ports these days, I remember discovering the Sonic ports for mobile a few years ago out of nowhere and almost missing my stop on the bus playing them. I might seek out those SNES versions though SNES era JRPG's tend to be hazardous for the health of your wallet
Would those be the Classic ports of the original Sonic games? I never played them but I was aware of them, as they were good enough that the developers went on to make Sonic Mania with Sega's blessing.
Those are the ones and it was actually a single developer I believe: Christian Whitehead.
You picked a very hard JRPG to start off with!
Xenoblade Chronicles (original) is a bit better than this. Xenoblade 2 is too.
But regardless, interesting take! I hope the friction and grind here hasn’t turned you off JRPGs, they aren’t all rough!
I've not dipped too far into the community (for spoiler reasons) but I was aware going in that X isn't really anybody's favourite Xenoblade game; I much prefer the character and story driven stuff to open world exploration so I suspect once I'm done with the rest, it won't be mine either.
Thanks for reading! It's definitely not put me off but I wouldn't say I'm a fan yet either, I will definitely play more games in the genre to get a firmer grasp on what I like; in the case of X, I was feeling a bit frustrated and burned out on the game when I finished this article but I finished Chapter 5 a few days later and the plot twist combined with unlocking the overdrive mechanic has really re-engaged me with the game
I completely agree with both what you like and don't like about this game, but man, I sunk so much time into XCX on the Wii U back in the day.
For me, it always came back to the world and to the combat. Mira remains one of the most immersive worlds I've ever seen in a game. It's incredible. The auto timed combat was also revelatory to me, a real step up from the traditional turn-based combat that I grew up with as a kid.
That said... the music is all over the place (those New LA themes, what were they thinking), the mechanics are often obtuse, and the quests are mostly garbage.
But man, that world...
Also, wait until you get Skells. What a rush!
I can see why, I actually almost put a line in this article about wishing I played the game younger, the amount to do in this game is great and I have to say, as much as I like the Wii-U library this has really been the game that's made my purchase of this console feel worthwhile.
The Skells really seem to be the light at the end of the tunnel at the moment. From about Level 15 onwards the game has been frustrating me every session but I know without Overdrive and the Skells I'm really only eating 1/3 of the combat, this motivates me because I'm actually really liking that part of the game. I refused to take the lower-difficulty option on the Chapter 4 boss and after several attempts, finally beating her was really rewarding.
Forgot to mention it but the way the gamepad is used is really cool too.
Yes, hang in there. It's worth it.
Completely agree, this game was made for the gamepad. I want to replay the game on Switch, but I am concerned with how the UI has been reconfigured.
It's so well integrated I actually struggle to imagine the game without it; it's probably on a menu which is a bit of an issue for me since the game's UI is already quite bloated